tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2054853820111729866.post726161171886792472..comments2024-03-15T09:30:08.974+01:00Comments on The Radical Catholic: The Doctrine and Liturgy of the Early ChurchRadical Catholichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04135335562951838761noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2054853820111729866.post-16754727820688435762015-07-30T01:17:51.873+02:002015-07-30T01:17:51.873+02:00JMR said...
After reading this, how can anyone arg...<b><i>JMR said...</i></b><br /><b><i>After reading this, how can anyone argue with the fact that the teaching of the Church, the DOGMA of the faith, was, from the beginning, that baptism with water was essential for salvation. And I am witness to the fact that all faithful Catholics believed in this dogma until Vatican II.</i></b><br /><br />First, I think the Church still insists as dogma that baptism with water is essential for salvation. The Catechism says so.<br /><br />Second, I think the Church has always taught that water baptism is essential <i>for those who are not in a state of invincible ignorance</i>, and for those who are not martyred while they are catechumens.<br /><br />The Council of Trent is explicit that the desire for baptism suffices in some cases: "since the promulgation of the Gospel, [salvation] cannot be effected, without <b>the laver of regeneration, or the desire thereof</b>." (Council of Trent Session 6 Chapter 3)<br /><br />Also: "If any one saith...that, without <b>[the Sacraments], or without the desire thereof</b>, men obtain of God, through faith alone, the grace of justification; though all [the Sacraments] are not indeed necessary for every individual; let him be anathema." (Council of Trent Session 7 Chapter 4)<br /><br />That is the true dogma of the Church, and it is reflected in the Church Fathers and popes and scholastic theologians throughout the ages. A sample is contained here:<br /><br /><b>Scripture, Church Fathers, and Medieval Doctors on the Possibility of Salvation for Non-Catholics</b><br />http://www.historyandapologetics.com/2015/02/scripture-church-fathers-and-medieval.htmldmar198https://www.blogger.com/profile/11913009400701162605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2054853820111729866.post-45381493260941630812015-03-11T10:59:22.800+01:002015-03-11T10:59:22.800+01:00After reading this, how can anyone argue with the ...After reading this, how can anyone argue with the fact that the teaching of the Church, the DOGMA of the faith, was, from the beginning, that baptism with water was essential for salvation. And I am witness to the fact that all faithful Catholics believed in this dogma until Vatican II. What was debated by philosophers and taught in the seminaries is another matter.I will not enter into another discussion abou the matter.<br /><br />JMRnoreply@blogger.com